Debunking the Ferrari 360 Modena

"CAR_IS_MI" (car-is-mi)
12/22/2015 at 01:27 • Filed to: ferrari

I have officially owned a 2000 Ferrari 360 Modena F1 for 8 months now. In this time, I have taken my Ferrari to many places and done various things with it in order to test the myths and theories of Ferrari ownership. Here are my findings.

[Note: Some of my findings are 360 Modena specific, some are Ferrari in general. It is also wise to note I live in Las Vegas, which differs greatly from owning a Ferrari in say, Nebraska, or possibly Philadelphia.]

Some of you may remember !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! nearly 7 months ago proclaiming the savior (or possibly the anti-Christ depending on your views), Doug DeMuro, to be woefully wrong about the 360 Modena. Let’s set the record straight. After 8 months, I have a love hate relationship with this magnificent Italian pile of steaming crap.

Let’s start with a follow up to Doug’s post.

Gas stations: According to Doug, this was his spot for constantly being accosted at. I proclaimed, one month in, that this was not true. I still stand by this statement. Now to be fair, the majority of the time I filled up at the chevron station by my house, which is located in a secluded suburb of Las Vegas, and for some perspective of the neighborhood, Floyd Mayweather lives less than an 1/8 a mile away. I distinctively recall an instance when I pulled into this gas station and there sat a Rolls Royce Wraith, a Range Rover Autobiography, and the new Maybach all filling up. As I filled up a 991 Turbo pulled in, and as I left, a GT-R pulled in. So expensive cars were not really a wow factor at this gas station.

I did manage to stop at several gas stations through town, with the occasional “nice car” while I was filling up, but only once did I ever get a conversation. I was out for a drive outside of town and stopped to fill up, a rented RV pulled up with about 5 mid-20-year old guys who were heading up to Zion Canyon pulled in next to me. They were cool and we had a good conversation, mostly about Zion as I had spent an extended weekend there 2 weeks prior. No Prius owners berating me for not getting 40 MPG, No rednecks in Camaro’s explaining to me why their car is better…

You can’t drive this every day : Okay so I will give Doug a 50/50 on this. I drove mine as a daily for 4 days, just to see. It’s not 100% fun, I will admit, but it is possible. The 360 is cheap enough (as far as Ferrari’s go) that if you have the cash to buy a well maintained, higher mileage one that is not in collector condition and don’t care about it too much, you absolutely can. During my 4 day stint, the biggest complaint I had was seat comfort. Even with the seat bolsters at their widest, the seat’s on the 360 are too tight, too short, and too hard. Driving this car for an extended period of time would be a literal pain in the ass (for reference, I’m 6’0” 180lbs athletic build, so you need to be a rather small person for the OEM seats to work for you).

The other concerns with daily-ing this car would be the obvious parking lot damage, other drives not seeing you, and maintenance costs of driving a Ferrari 10,000 miles a year. Again, if the money isn’t a concern, and you replace the seats with something out of a newer Ferrari (seriously, the F430 spider seats are 1000x better and those are still not great), you could, theoretically, daily drive this car.

You won’t get more chicks : I called this one true 7 months ago. Now I will give it a 50/50 with the pre-qualifier “you won’t pick up the right kind of chick in this car”. Unless your name is Kanye and you want to complain about gold diggers and then marry one, this car is not the “hey ladies” car for you. That’s right, if you are interested in a ‘hand in your pocket, buy me something’ kind of woman whose vocabulary consists of Gucci, Fendi, Prada, Louis… then this is the car for you. Otherwise, don’t buy this car as a replacement for your pickup lines, as it won’t work, just like your pickup lines.

Insurance is a P.I.T.A. (look it up) : When Doug initially bought his 360 he went on a diatribe about how many hoops he had to jump through to get his insured. I knew going into this that my primary insurance company would not cover this car, so I didn’t even try. How did I know this? 2 years ago I almost bought a Maserati Quattroporte, then decided against it after shopping for insurance and getting the lowest quote of $4,200 per year… Since then, I learned more about how insurance works and discovered more “collector” type insurance companies.

To be fair, it took my 3 whole days to get insurance in place. I had to submit an application, speak to an underwriter, send in several pictures for verification including VIN and mileage, get an approval, and then pay; most of which was done via email, and the company is located on the east coast, and I am on the west coast, so exchanges were like this: receive email at 9am PST ‘we need pictures’. Get home from work 6pm PST take pictures, email pictures at 7pm PST a.k.a 10pm EST. wait for response overnight… So 3 days was more than reasonable.

So onto some general myths about Ferrari’s and the 360’s

The most common question I received was “ How expensive is it to maintain?”

Not very. Yes, you do need to complete a full engine service every 15k mi. Yes, parts, and more specifically labor, is very expensive for a Ferrari. I purchased mine with 18,364 miles. The 15k service was first completed at 12,xxx miles, and then again at 17,774 miles as the car was in storage for several years, all by the previous owner.

So how much does one of these 15k services cost? On the 360, expect $4,500 to $6,000 depending on where you take it. The good news is, this is basically a full engine checkup and repair every 15k miles, so these things run like a charm.

Besides the major services, an “oil service” needs to be completed every 2 years or 2,500 miles. This is at a cost of nearly $1,000. Now I know what you’re thinking; $1,000 oil changes!!! Yes. But this includes the oil test, which can inform the tech of potentially catastrophic situations, as well as swapping the trans fluid, and several gaskets and seals. Ferrari also recommends replacing the clutch at 80% clutch life, which is a $5,000 expense (more on that later). Everything else is pretty standard.

So far, my cost to maintain this car has been $176.00. It’s about due for an oil service, and will likely need a clutch in the next 2,000 miles as it is currently at 60% clutch life (I know, I’m such a rebel).

MPG: “You must be at the gas station every day, huh?”

No. Actually. Many of you may be surprised to learn that the 360 Modena has an absolutely massive fuel tank. It actually has two, 12-gallon fuel bladders located behind each seat, for 24 total gallons of fuel carrying. As far as MPG’s go, the EPA says 8 city 11 highway. I have never actually calculated my MPG’s, but I am led to believe the MPG’s are so low as it is not possible to drive this car economically. It begs for more throttle. If nothing else, for the sound of that flat plane V8.

The real question is, if you’re buying a Ferrari, why are you concerned with the fuel consumption?

Do you get a free hat with purchase?

No, but they will give a discount on purchases…

Do you carry a fire extinguisher with you at all times?

No, but I like to live dangerously… uncoincidentally however, my particular 360 was optioned with a fire extinguisher from the factory. It had long been removed from the car though.

You’re a brave man, I wouldn’t touch an early F1 transmission with a 10 foot pole.

Thank you, and why not? Yes I have seen the plethora of people having issues with their F1 trans. However, like everything else, if you maintain it, you won’t have issues.

Allow me to explain. The early F1 trans was a single clutch system that was hydraulically activated. The “F1 relay” likes to fail, but I not overly expensive to replace, so replace it often. The clutch needs to be adjusted and set by a trained tech, so bring it to a dealer and pay the premium, it will be worth it in the long run (over an indy shop). Change your fluids on schedule. Know how the system works.

I drive in sport mode all the time as this engages the clutch quicker and keeps it engaged longer, this means less wear on the clutch in exchange for a slightly harsher engagement. These transmissions are also set up to rev match on the down shift under throttle only. Downshifting while braking or decelerating without throttle can be damaging to the clutch and transmission systems. The only issue I had with my transmission was when the little tabs for the reverse lever broke, causing it to think it was in reverse and forwards at the same time. The lever cost $150 to replace, but luckily, the previous owner had a spare in the car when I bought it…

As far as driving experience goes, under normal throttle, the 360 is very smooth. Shift engagement is based on throttle input, so less throttle = slower gear changes and less harsh engagement. Full throttle means faster gear changes and harsher engagements, and my god, a harsh engagement in a Ferrari F1 means getting slapped in the back of the head, hard.

You will feel every bump in the road:

True. It’s a sports car, not a Honda. If you don’t want a stiff suspension, don’t spend six figures on a sports car.

Is it overly stiff? No. Would I want to hit every pothole? No.

The previous owner lived in LA and drove it through downtown LA, which has potholes the make my truck climb through them… This is also why my 360 has F430 wheels.

Final Verdict

The 360 is an amazing machine, and at today’s prices, a steal. The 3.6l engine is still one of Ferraris most reliable, and, in my opinion, best sounding V8’s. Maintenance costs are reasonable when you take everything into relativity, and while not an overly comfortable car, it’s one of the better vehicles I have driven in the past few years. Owning any Ferrari is an experience if nothing else, and should you be afforded the opportunity, I recommend jumping at it, even if only for a short period of time.

I purchased this car with the intent of flipping it once the title arrived. It was good enough for me to keep much longer than expected, and that’s saying something. Soon it will be gone, and the hunt for the next big value flip will be on.

DISCUSSION (27)

Cherry_man1 > CAR_IS_MI
12/22/2015 at 01:41

I highly doubt I could afford it but what would you ask for it once your ready to sell and would you take a trade?

Doug DeMuro > CAR_IS_MI
12/22/2015 at 02:13

I don’t remember having trouble insuring it; I had it on a collector policy with American Modern. It’s been 2 years though so maybe there were some hang-ups.

It’s also worth noting that you’re 2 years or less from a major ($4500 as you say) and 2 years or less from a new clutch ($8k+) so you’re drawing closer and closer to $12K in work. You say it isn’t “very” expensive to maintain — but you wouldn’t be saying that if you were stuck holding the hot potato when it needed all this work. To me, it isn’t worth putting up with it.

Generally I think our experiences are largely starting to even out, with the major differences largely being attributable to differences in where we live and the colors of our respective cars.

With that said, I, personally, consider the 360 one of the worst (nice) cars I’ve ever owned from my perspective . Owning my car, I discovered I am simply not a Ferrari guy. I don’t like the image, I don’t like the anxiety and I don’t like the compromises. If the whole experience taught me anything, it’s that I just prefer Porsches.

Sneaky Pete > CAR_IS_MI
12/22/2015 at 02:17

Makes the $100 oil changes in the Viper (including a Blackstone analysis) seem like a bargain in comparison.

Great write-up. Look forward to a similar write-up for whatever car you replace the 360 with.

AM3R shamefully returns > Doug DeMuro
12/22/2015 at 02:29

Go to bed Doug. It’s almost 2:30 here on the east coast lol. On a more serious note, I’m really pondering what the maintenance costs would be like for a 997 GT3..

CRider > Doug DeMuro
12/22/2015 at 02:32

Here’s to hoping your Viper-powered Model T is more fun to own than the 360 was.

CAR_IS_MI > Doug DeMuro
12/22/2015 at 02:36

I think I thought I once read about you arguing values with an isurance company or something.

Major was done at 17,774 about a year and a half ago, currently at 19,9xx miles. Will be sold before the next major. Also will be sold before clutch. My dealer quoted me at $5200 for clutch, but it will be gone by then...

As far as expense to maintain, yes, it’s expensive, but again, throw that relatively word in there, and it’s relatively reasonable. I don’t know about you but I bought mine in cash, and if you can afford a Ferrari in cash, assuming it didn’t take you 30 years of savings to save up for it, putting a few grand together isn’t really an issue.

I agree largely with your sentiments, which is why I will be getting rid of mine soon too. I can’t quite say Ferrari ownership is not for me, but rather, not for me at this point in my life. If I quadruple my income, then I will contemplate Ferrari ownership again.

I grew up in the Boston area and lived in Philly (King of Prussia) for a little while. I know thee roads and the reaction a car like this would get in those areas, so yes, I agree with you. But having been to most major cities in the south west, this car would be fine anywhere out here, and might draw more attention in some areas, but is pretty commonplace in the Vegas / SoCal area.

And I 100% agree with the worst / nice comment. I love this car. I love talking to people about this car. I love getting random phone calls from people I haven’t spoken to in 10 years like “I guess you made it huh?”. I hate driving it anywhere except back into my garage. I hate being on high alert of every other driver. I hate having to ponder the what if’s and how much they might cost me. And yes, I too, am a larger fan of Porsche. If I were to go shopping for any car, budget unlimited, and only one car, I would come back with a Porsche, no questions asked. But like I said, I initially purchased this car as a flip (honestly, if you knew what I paid it would make you sick, knowing what you paid for one that was 2 years newer) but enjoyed it enough to hang onto it for slightly longer than expected.

Arben72 > CAR_IS_MI
12/22/2015 at 04:40

$1-$1.50 a mile in just maintance isn’t “reasonable” (in comparison my $120k Mercedes has been 37¢ a mile since new). Be realistic, you bought it between common services. Maintance is expensive that’s why that car has only seen around 1,000 miles a year.

Saying Doug is wrong is just incorrect, his situation is vastly different then yours. My m3 gets more attention then I’d like, though in some areas it’s considered a high schoolers beater.

You can also daily a full blown race car if your tolerant enough (and live in a non-emissions/inspection state).

Insurance is more of a pain compared to normal cars, and that’s who Doug’s main readerbase is. Same with the suspension, same with everything you’ve said pretty much. Your trying to compare the point of “you expect these things” v.s. “This is the difference between your econobox and a Ferrari.” Still a good read and I’m glad for your sharing on the other side of the story. I still need to pick up my own F car, but when I do it’ll most likely be when I retire and that’s a long time from now.

P.s. Driving shoes are the bomb, aren’t they?

samssun > Doug DeMuro
12/22/2015 at 07:07

What you’re really saying, no sarcasm, is that you’re too poor to enjoy one. Poor being a relative term, as in “70k a year and I’m still too poor to throw money away like my friends at 40k and 140k both seem to”.

I bet if you, say doubled your income (which I assume would put you in comfortable but not crazy territory), the anxiety would disappear and the gouging on simple maintenance would become an “it is what it is” kind of thing.

Thomas Donohue > CAR_IS_MI
12/22/2015 at 08:26

Wearing those Ferrari driving shoes may be the reason you don’t get too many comments in the gas station. Personally, it would make me think twice about saying hello.

E92M3 > CAR_IS_MI
12/22/2015 at 09:47

I’m interested to see what you make on this flip, keep us updated. I imagine it’s already a hard car to sell, even more so considering it’s coming up on $12k in maintenance.

CAR_IS_MI > Thomas Donohue
12/22/2015 at 11:31

lol. I actually have only worn those shoes 3 or 4 times ever.

CAR_IS_MI > E92M3
12/22/2015 at 11:36

Remember, the average Ferrari gets driven about 1,000 miles a year. So this one will need a clutch sometime in the next 2 years, and the major sometime in the next 10 years...

Bird > CAR_IS_MI
12/22/2015 at 11:39

You should definitely go JDM for the next one... :)

It gets more attention too. I think I stopped at that shell station pulling the Aerocabin...a guy almost caused an accident making a u-turn to come talk to me. His wife and kids were in the car with him. I’m sure they were trying to figure out why dad almost killed them to look at some car...

wiffleballtony > CAR_IS_MI
12/22/2015 at 11:41

It seems to me if the car is kept for an extended length of time, it becomes expensive to own according to your quotes of engine out maintenance, clutch replacement and oil changes.

CAR_IS_MI > Arben72
12/22/2015 at 11:41

It’s like my dad always said, if you can afford the car, you can afford the gas...

Okay so it’s not really the same, but I don’t think anyone is going into exotic car ownership under the impression that the maintenance cost will be close to that of a mass produced vehicle.

I only call Doug out as he is the only other person here who has a similar experience and wrote about it. Most of the concerns I said were 50/50, and yes, a lot of that has to do with location.

Yes, insurance is more difficult to obtain, but not ‘pull all my hair out’ difficult. If I was buying a car for me to keep, this would not be it. I am personally a big fan of Porsche, but for a flip, the F-car was a ton of fun. And yes, a nice pair of driving shoes are great, the ones pictured actually aren’t that great. I bought them becasue they were severely discounted, but I would much rather wear a set of Piloti’s.

CAR_IS_MI > Bird
12/22/2015 at 11:50

Depending what I make off the flip, I am still looking to get Eunos Cosmo 20b like we spoke about earlier in the year, but I am wanting (needing) to keep at least my initial investment in the F-car so I can roll it into another high end flip.

CAR_IS_MI > wiffleballtony
12/22/2015 at 11:55

It can, and there is nothing you can do about extending the life of 15k services, they need to be done. But considering your average Ferrari sees 1k miles a year, they are not too close together. Clutch life is greatly effected by how you drive. I have seen people need to replace a clutch after 7k mi, and I have seen clutches last 40k miles. Ferrari’s 80% replacement recommendation is BS, and if you find a good indy mechanic they can adjust the parameters in the hydraulic control, which will help extend the life (although I would leave an actual replacement up to the dealers).

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > CAR_IS_MI
12/22/2015 at 12:20

Nice 360; I really like the F430 wheels on it. I’ve only spent a short time with this model, so I didn’t get a good feel of how it shifts compared to its predecessor F1, which I do have in the garage. The 360 is drive-by-wire, right?

I’ve had mine for a year and a half, and I wrote about its engine-out major service a while back. I am in the process of a lot of cosmetic restoration, so I will have some rather different stories to tell :)

Enjoy the beautiful car! BTW, you forgot to blur your plate in the last pic.

CAR_IS_MI > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
12/22/2015 at 12:33

The early 360’s (pre 02) had very few improvements over the 355’s F1. It is all drive by wire. I love the 355, but the major is what always scared me away. An engine out is actually an engine out. In the 360 a Major requires removing the access panel behind the seats to access the engine front panel.

I don’t want to know what cosmetic restoration is going to run you.

I never blur my plates, if you really want to find me it’s much easier to just google me, there is only one person in the world with my exact name and that’s me, so anyone is welcome to show up on my doorstep and it will end one of two ways; come as a friend and leave as a friend, or come with ill intentions and see what happens when you piss off an Italian (and not the jersey shore kind either).

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > CAR_IS_MI
12/22/2015 at 13:11

Oh, I only mentioned the plate because it was blurred in the first pic.

Cosmetic restoration is a bottomless pit. I will draw the line after certain major components are done, the last of which will be a full exterior paint correction. I intend to own my car to drive it, and it will never enter a Concours competition...OK, well, maybe it could, but just for fun.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Doug DeMuro
12/22/2015 at 13:36

And to be honest, FerrariChat hated you for some reason.

CAR_IS_MI > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
12/22/2015 at 13:52

It was blurred in that pic for a different reason...

If I were to buy one for me I would find a high mileage well maintained one that had its blemishes so it would never have to be one that I had to worry about any minor imperfections effecting the value.

Bird > CAR_IS_MI
12/22/2015 at 15:44

Well I hope you do very well on the Ferrari!

Doug DeMuro > CAR_IS_MI
12/23/2015 at 12:28

“I hate driving it anywhere except back into my garage. I hate being on high alert of every other driver. I hate having to ponder the what if’s and how much they might cost me. And yes, I too, am a larger fan of Porsche. If I were to go shopping for any car, budget unlimited, and only one car, I would come back with a Porsche, no questions asked.”

This totally sums up my opinion, except far more succinctly than I ever could’ve!

Doug DeMuro > samssun
12/23/2015 at 12:28

I spent the last 2 years thinking about this issue, and I eventually came to the conclusion that I am not too poor to afford it, but simply too anxious.

forgeryfade > CAR_IS_MI
12/24/2015 at 21:30

Exceptional work. Probably sacrilegious to voice this here but this outshines Doug’s experience. Always felt his anxiety got too much in the way of any enjoyment.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > CAR_IS_MI
01/06/2016 at 23:23

I could never tell the 360 from the 430. What’s the major difference?

Also, is it pronounced Mo-DANE-uh or Mo-DEEN-uh? (or MOD-en-uh?)